I certainly didn't intend to insult or irritate anyone or to put down anyone's rig! One of the big reasons I like the hdt and mdt forums is that folks don't flame each other (unlike the rv.net forums). When we disagree we do so tactfully. We'll never all agree on everything, so let's agree to disagree at times. JMHO!

Marv

I do read the forums, often. I am very active on other sites and as you mentiond am new here. As a new guy I wanted to read and listen more than open my trap until I was more Community aware. Not making many posts is not a measure of being active. I would speculate that this forum and many like it have a Silent majority of readers rather than posters. I am sure a Modreator can affirm this point by comparing member numbers by post activity.

As I read this thread I began to feel a sense of MDT bashing. I can only speculate that others may have gotten the same feel as well. That is when I decided to no longer remain silent.

Here is a quote from another member on his feelings about the general atmosphere in the MDT forums.

"Let's say a person trying to decide about a new truck comes to the Escapee forum and finds HDT and MDT. He reads both. Lot's of comradeship, why, how, and other things on HDT. Takes a look at MDT and can't find a good reason in the forum to own one and if he has a question no one even chimes in with moral support. So I would like to change some of this. I would hope we can get a pros and cons list going, with some commentary. I have personally met more HDT guys than MDT folks, and like them, but I still feel my MDT is perfect for the job of pulling a big and heavy fifth wheel. I just want a resource for the new guy not a war with flame suits required. Maybe I should change the title."

I do value and appreciate the input and information many offer here. This is a great venue for learning from others. It is only when some folks go beyond mere statement and get emotional. I pointed out that some of you were bashing and flaming other peoples property and investments. Advice is one thing, but after reading a few posts about what a pice of crap the 450's and 550's are I had to call it for what it is. Flaming and just plain wrong. I ask you to go back in this thread and re-read a few of the posts. While you do that, imagine thay are talking about your truck. When I see a guy pulling a 16K RV with a 150/250/1500/2500 I dont tell him how inferior his truck is to the 450/550/4500/5500. I don't rant about how his truck is quote "Crap" and will need the transmisison rebuilt every season. I would only talk about load ratings and capacity and possibly make the suggestion he may be over taxing his truck. Referring to other peoples property as crap and junk is not constructive and insulting. Unles you have some other motive or business venture that may benifit by doing so.

I did not intend to offend anyone with my opinion about how I felt offended. I simply wanted to get this thread back on topic and constructive. I have now personally contributed to taking it off topic and will not do so again.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: AdamG,

Adam....Well said.!!!! Jim A.

Some time back this MDT Forum did separate into a MDT Form and a HDT Forum....But at time it seem the HDT Folks are so excited, that they have to tell you about the best kept secret in the RVing Industry...Now, what I do not see is the MDT Owners giving advice about what truck you need on the HDT Forum....I just think there are some big Ego's on these forums...I sometimes get tired of hearing about HDT's...I have seen a grande total of 1 HDT pulling a 5th wheel in the past year on the east coast..We worked in a campground for 9 months that was big rig friendly and zero HDT's pulling 5th wheels in Charleston,SC Campground....Jim A...

The HDT guys left this forum at their own request for just this reason: a little too much sensitivity on the part of the MDT owners.

While the word CRAP was used by a poster, it was used in the context that after modifying his own 550 suspension "it still rode like crap"! He did not say his truck was crap, rather that he liked the truck but it just wasn't sufficient enough for his demands.

I enjoyed my Duramax for what it did well, wonderful ride characteristics while being used as a grocery getter or mulch toter or towing our cargo trailer with Harley aboard. I found it lacking when towing our Cedar Creek 36RLTS not so much because it wasn't capable but because I refused to accept slowing to 45 mph on steep grades while heavier trucks were forced to pull out and pass me. That's just me and my ingrained habits. When the time came to retire and take the Harley along, well double towing didn't appeal at all so a purpose built MDT was the solution.

Would I have been happy with a Chev 4500/5500 or Ford 450/550 were I simply still towing my Cedar Creek, you betcha! Especially with the interior luxury of the Ford offerings.

I hope I have not come off as implying that the only vehicle suitable for towing something in the range of under 20,000lbs would be a class 6 or more as that was not my intent. I will state categoricly however, that: IMHO from a safety, reliability, performance & comfort standpoint an HDT is going to be better than my class 6 and any class 1 to 5 truck.

I'm an ex pickup and MDT owner and if there was any way I could have done it I'd rather of had a HDT. I'll stand by m advice that anyone truck shopping start out looking at the HDTs and if they won't do for them then look at the MDTs before moving down to the lighter trucks.

Why that order, ride comfort, price and towing abilities.

Your opinion may vary but if you look at all three you should find a truck that will do for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Preston:
I am planning to go fulltime after 01/03/08 and am researching the right rig to by. I have been leaning towards a class A diesel pusher between 35-40 feet with 2 or 3 slides. I have recently come across several articles about the safety factor of class As, so I'm back to considering a 5er. I have some basic questions that I need help with, but do understand that weight is a primary factor when deciding on a tow vehicle.
1. Is there a size (length) where it becomes necessary to look for a MDT or HDT tow vehicle?
2. What size 5er is safe to pull with something like a Ford F 450 or 550?
3. What challenges are there or advice when using a MDT for "sightseeing" after you've parked and setup?
4. We plan to travel and see the US and Canada so we don't plan to stay in any one sport more than 2-4 weeks. I've heard that 5ers are great if you plan to stay for extended periods of time and not do frequent travel. Any thoughts/advice?
5. What size 5er would be comperable in room to say a 38 foot class A?
6. And finally, at least for now, does a 5er have the same storage as a class A basement storage?

Thanks, I look forward to reading your experienced and expert advice.

Preston

Preston, Are you still here?

Thought I would post the original questions.

Preston, it's to bad the motorhome, excuse me motorcoach guys don't read the MDT forum. It would be a lot more fun. Maybe someone should ask the question, What makes a good wife/husband/SO ?

I early on answered your question with go for a MH. I "carefully" read your questions and it appeared to me you were looking for a reason not to get a motorhome. If I had the money I would, especially after the toy/car trailer I just designed and had built for a guy with lot's of money and a nice MotorCoach. Yea, he's over length.

My Answers

Q1: No length, just weight. HDT never required on current model fifth wheel trailer weights.

Q2: Same answer, I don't think there is a FW made that an empty F550 could not "legally" pull.

Q3: Comparing a car to any truck, the answer is of course a car. When my wife followed me around with our TDI Jetta, there was no way in heck we would take the MDT anywhere.

Q4: How quick you can pick up and head down the road will depend, of course, by how much stuff you have on the ground or loose in the unit that has to be secured. Connecting a fifth or connecting a car is the same time.

Q5: So many variables and floor plans I could not even take a WAG. Room not only means floor size but volume and layout. You and the SO have to figure that one out.

Q6: Similar to Q5. Floor plans and basement layout are many. What's most important is what you carry, it's weight, and how you pack it. I could sleep in my basement right now but my unit is at gross even with the 4433 CCC that they advertised.

The basics: The larger unit you get the more comfortable, but the fewer places you get to stay.(There are some beautiful NF CG we camp in with the tent and motorcycle that I'm happy they won't let me or any of you in with a big rig) The more stuff you have, the more PIA it is, but the more fun you could possible have.

And no matter what you do, you will always think something else would have been better. Except of course, for me, my most recent(25 years)choice in a mate.

Rick:

Concise and well written and even more important; on topic! I've been kicking myself for running headlong into the timeworn debate yet once again.

My sincere apologies to Preston.

Since waylandlong did such a wonderful job putting some real meat on the argument I feel no need to embellish things any more. What I would like to point that those who feel the need to defend "pickups" typically defend "their" a pickup. I don't doubt that "perfection" in a pickup is possible, after all there are "perfect marriages", "perfect investments", "perfect children", "perfect in laws", etc., etc.
I have to confess that before my HDT and before my MDT I had three pickups I used for my RVing excursions over a period of about 15 years and that for about 14 years I too experienced "pickup perfection". These were absolutely "perfect machines" to carry me and my family on frequent and long adventures throughout this country in my massive slide on and then in a 32 foot 8,000 lbs fifth
The same pickup which was "perfect" up to this point, when hitched up to the 36 foot 2 slide 12,500 lbs fifth turned into what has been so succinctly described as "crap" (engine and tranny went at the same time).
Brian T was looking for some numbers to put with various truck tonnages. All three of my pickups were 1 tons (two Chevies and one Ford). Since "perfection" existed at 8,000 lbs and "crap" at 12,500 lbs I would guess that the true demarcation point was somewhere in the middle.
I just came back from an HDT Rally. There were about dozen of us with massive trailers surrounded by hundreds (it was a huge campground) "perfect" pickup trucks with "perfect" trailers (20-30 feet).
There were also couple of those F-something, something going by us, with the Banks Power, etc. stickers on it to which we commented to ourselves, "there goes a sixty thousand dollar pickup".
What waylandlong is trying to convey that what he sees in his shop is "arranged marriages" where the in laws on one side are truck salesmen and on the other side the RV salesmen. The bride and groom have never seen each other before the nuptials and while the in laws are divvying up the dowry of camel and goats, in the tent the thirteen year old bride is trying to figure out how to be a good wife to a 300 pound groom.

hjs

Well,here is another weight question.I am trying to help a friend decide how heavy a trailer he can pull with an 06 dodge 2500.The pillar tag does not state the gross combined weight rating? So how are people to find out just what their truck can pull if the OEM's are not going to tell you? Or post it on the pillar tag?Whats up with tha? I searched all over his tag and could not find a GCWR any where. I guess his truck can pull anything he can hook to, or is the gcrw hidden somwhere else? This is the kind of thing that confuses so many people.

J-M, I would tell your friend not to pull anything over 8-10,000 lbs with a 3/4 ton, if he wants to pull "relaxed". Regardless of what the RV salesman tells him, even that is pushing it.
Sure, he can hitch and pull up something bigger, particularly if he has the Cummins in it, but he won't be "relaxed".
I had a 4th pickup (an "interim" puller) I bought with my Royals. V-10 gas with 5 speed manual. 30,500 lbs combined weight, sure it pulled it. On our first pull from KY (where we bought it) to NH, wife and I both commented that this "pair" would have killed any inexperienced "newbie" ten times over before reaching the final destination. And, every time I backed the rig the stench of burned clutch would waft in the air for 10 minutes afterwards.
If you friend wants to pull a 32 footer with many slides, or bigger rig, he needs to get a "real truck", like yours.

hjs

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hjsdds,

I'd like to add something from a different perspective, that of someone new to RVing. Being an (re)tired engineer, I know the odds are stacked against me, but I did my research. Bought me a 33' Carriage Cameo, net weight 11,900 lbs. and carefully "engineered" my new PU - a Dodge 3500 5.9 auto SRW. According to all the published specs, this would be a great combination. But, main reason: DW said "NO" to duallies, MDT, HDT. Nuff said?

I then spent lots of bucks on the trailer. Aded a Mor/Ryde pin box, and the new IS suspension with disk brakes. But, I could never get comfortable with that weight behind that truck (yes, I weighed and loaded so I would stay within limits). So, at great expense, I traded in a 6 month old truck for a new Dodge 6.7 LB Dually. And, I added a Trailersaver hitch and airbags, and now have the "perfect" truck.

So why am I in this forum? Well, as you all know, what you read and what you get ain't the same thing. I am sure that I am inside all my weight limits, and feel much more comfortable driving down the road. But now, when I drive over some of the so-called "highways", and hit one of those scary dips and/or bumps, I "feel" the stress of the trailer pushing and pulling hard on the truck. From my old drag racing days: "there ain't no substitute for cubic inches" in RVing should be "there ain't no substitute for tow vehicle weight to trailer weight ratio".

In summary, I really appreciate all the posts and opinions, they are very educational. I have no problem in leveraging into an MDT or HDT, but don't know how to leverage DW that way.... maybe I'll have to take you up on an offer to test drive at a rally somewhere. This is fun, but these RV life lessons are expensive...

John

John, it's hard to fathom a female mind, that's why I am an engineer and not a psychiatrist.
At the East Coast HDT Rally we had two couples who came to "explore" the world of the "giants" and actually got some left seat time on the local roads. The fellows seemed quite comfortable with the rigs, but only time will tell if this was a "mutual feeling" with their "significant others".

hjs

Like someone said at the ECR, you need a "Gynechiatrist" to figure that one out.

Go to a rally, or connect with someone who has a MDT or a HDT. Take DW for a ride, WITH trailer is even better. Research the safety aspect and present your decision in that light.
I applaud your exceptional intelligence in considering the weight stuff BEFORE you bought. Think of it this way: You'll never have to buy another truck..................

John

With all do respect and I have been married 39 years to the same women. At some point you just have to tell the DW if "WE" are going to do this then "WE" are going to do it safely and if she has a problem with that then maybe you should stay in or go back into your stick and brick home because in all likihood it will not be her A** sitting in the left seat when it all goes to SH%&. Your out some money on the two trucks that you do not feel are up to the job, don't wait until you are out a lot more.

Dennis