A recent issue of RV Travel E-zine included this article.

Real ID issue

It seems we need a common voice and help in organizing an awareness among our lawmakers about our "unique" lifestyle.

First of all, when going full time, we went to a lawyer who told us that if we were not going to "live" anywhere but in our RV, we should choose a tax friendly state as a residence because Uncle Sam does require such for filing federal taxes. We did just that.

Full timers are doing nothing illegal and I hate the implication of laws like this which make some people think they have to "hide" their mobile status. Nothing is illegal about traveling and spending money in every state and in some cases, working along the way and helping to subsidize the economy in these ways. Recently a medical facility told my husband they couldn't send mail to a mail forwarding address because of federal privacy laws. WHAT? He said, "Ok, then, just send it here" and gave her our mail forwarding address. She was stupid and took the bait.

Some people feel the need to buy property in their state of legal residence to "solidify" their residential status. While there is nothing wrong with that, why can we not just use a campground. When I am in my legal state, that is where I stay, albeit temporarily. Is that much different from a tenant who rents an apartment temporarily? I don't think so.

So what can the Escapees do to aid us in informing our lawmakers of our lifestyle and why there should not be laws making it difficult for us. I hesitate to say there should be laws protecting our full timing rights, because who wants MORE laws?

I would like to see Escapees organize an effort of informing our legislators of the full timing lifestyle and what can be done to guarantee that law abiding and taxpaying Americans who travel will continue to enjoy the freedoms AND responsibilities being a citizen entails.

Dale

This is from the article Dale referred to:

"In addition to proving citizenship, those who renew (or apply for) state-issued cards will also need to provide proof of their principle residence address. Typically this would be in the form of a utility bill, showing the name and address of the applicant. What happens to the unnumbered masses of full time RVers who don't have utility bills because they don't have a "home" other than their wheeled residence?"

Frankly, I think he's wrong. There's no way a utility bill can be used as proof of "living" someplace. Think about all the people, besides fulltime RVers, who don't have utility bills in their names: college students living at home or in a dorm, is just one example. You're telling me that a college student couldn't get a driver's license because he or she doesn't have a utility bill in his or her name???

I've read the Real ID Act, and don't see anything in it that should be of real concern to a fulltime RVer. While it does say that one must provide proof of principle residence, that can be done by showing any number of bills with one's address on it. I don't know about you, but we have credit card bills, brokerage statements, wireless telephone bill, satellite TV bill, etc., that show our legal address.

There's nothing in the bill that I can see that says one must live in a sticks and bricks house, condo, apartment, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottiemom:

So what can the Escapees do to aid us in informing our lawmakers of our lifestyle and why there should not be laws making it difficult for us. I hesitate to say there should be laws protecting our full timing rights, because who wants MORE laws?

I would like to see Escapees organize an effort of informing our legislators of the full timing lifestyle and what can be done to guarantee that law abiding and taxpaying Americans who travel will continue to enjoy the freedoms AND responsibilities being a citizen entails.

Dale

Just so you know, the Escapees organization has been working on this since 2002. In fact, we were the ones who got the AAMVA (American Assoc of Motor Vehicle Administrators, the agency tasked with coming up with recommendations to improve D/L security) to change their definition of residence from "fixed permanent dwelling place" to "legal residence".

Unfortunately, when the Real ID act came out of the Feds, that had been changed to "principal residence", but we think we can live with that... Your domicile is very arguably your principal residence by definition.

It's a shame that the article referred to was not better researched... it seems a bit alarmist in nature, and doesn't address the fact that there are a lot of other ways mandated in the legislation to prove residency. You do not have to have a utility bill

Two other points:

1. At last count, 22 states were refusing to adopt or ratify Real ID, and more were jumping on the bandwagon, leaving serious doubt that it will ever be implemented.

2. Representatives from Escapees (myself included) made a trip to Austin in February specifically to talk to our legislators about Real ID and the possibilities of it affecting fulltimers, and we feel comfortable that our representatives both understand the issue, and will fight to prevent it from passing if it will make it impossible for law-abiding RVers to get a driver’s license.

We hope it is a non-issue, but are ready to jump in if need be, and we are carefully watching this issue, and have been since it first started in the AAMVA back in 2002!

Thanks for the information, Mark. I am, however, unclear as to the scope of the involvement by Escapees. While it appears from your comments that initially it was a national effort, has it now become an effort only for those who claim Texas as a residence? I'm not trying to pass judgment here, I'm just trying to ascertain if those of us residing in other states need to be talking with our legislators. If so, does Escapees have any specific recommendations as to how we should target this issue? Again, I'm not being critical, I just want to know if the effort being made is for ALL full-timers regardless of state of domicile, or is it primarily a Texas effort at this point.

Thanks!

Dale

As an individual who 'resides' in the same state you do I have not found a problem licensing or doing any other legal business as a South Dakota resident. However, I will tell you that we went to a SD lawyer we know personally to have our wills redrawn so they would also be in compliance with SD laws, rules, and regulations.

As LindaH said I think the article you cited was written without adequate research and closer reading of the actual law would indicate that if one can prove legal residence that will be adequate. Let's face it, we aren't the only fulltimers. A lot of construction workers and oil field workers fall into the same category we do and the government isn't going to rile them up.

By the way, we have fulltimed for 10 years and issues come and go. We also find that stick home residents who work in offices or write articles don't really understand what applies to us but voice opinions with no basis in fact.

Thank you for your perspective JJ Wms and LindaH. I am not "worried" as we have changed everything over to SD. . . insurance, voting, Medicare, etc. It does concern me when I read that a PMB address will not suffice as a residence.

This summer we are headed to Sioux Falls for the last little tidbit which is our trust. We have been told to leave it where it is. . . but we are going to have it set in SD. I pm'd you.

Thanks again!

Dale

When we worked the issue with the AAMVA, we worked it as a national issue... Ditto for the real id act itself. However, now that it's been handed off to the states individually, so to speak, we simply don't have the resources to track and organize a watchdog effort in each and every state. We would obviously concentrate on Texas, and also assist in other states where possible.

All anyone needs to do is what we did: contact your representatives and make them aware of your concerns. This is a pretty straightforward issue, so I doubt that anyone would oppose protecting fulltimers rights to get a driver license!

Here is a copy of the info letter we took with us to Austin... it is specifically aimed at our state legislators, but with a couple minor changes, this same letter could be used by individual RVers (or other RV organizations) in any state to make their elected representatives aware of the issue. Please feel free to cut and paste!

quote:

In reference to the proposed changes in driver’s license requirements that the Real ID Act calls for:

The Escapees organization represents some 65,000 members of the RVing public. Many of our members have no other home than their recreational vehicle, having sold their stick-and-mortar homes in favor of full time residence in a traveling RV. Escapees maintains a mail-forwarding service in the State of Texas that provides full-time RVers a home base, and allows them to have a legal domicile in Texas, where they can secure their vehicle registrations, insurance, driver’s license, bank accounts, and so on, without being a house or property owner. Every citizen must have a home of record, and full-time RVers are no exception.

Since the Real ID Act is proposing new standards for proving identification and residency when applying for, or renewing, a driver’s license, we felt we needed to make you aware of the unique status of this growing segment of the population. Any driver’s license residency requirements that the Legislature approves should consider that some law abiding citizens choose not to live in traditional homes. Please address the issue of the full-time RVer in any upcoming legislation, so that Texas does not inadvertently deny them the ability to obtain a legal driver’s license.

We are continuing to watch the issue...

Thanks, Mark.

Dale

This just shows once again that we need to use care in choosing what internet sites to read and pay attention to. There are a lot of sites out there and there is no way to know the validity of what is posted unless you know more about the authors. Many an owner has discovered that to post controversy will increase the activity and some of them are not too concerned with the accuracy of what they use to get it.

Within the last week we have received information from a SKP who tried to renew their TX drivers license. They were told that they must furnish a stick and mortar address. TX will no longer accept a Rainbow Drive PMB address was what they were told.

Has anyone else heard of this?
Is there another place on the forum there is a discussion of this?
Dick and Marilyn
SKP# 61011

Dick and Marilyn,

Where did the SKP member try to renew their driver's license? Approximately, a year ago a south TX DVM employee was misinformed about the addresses. I made a few phone calls, spoke to her supervisor and all was good. The SKP who had problems had no more.

There should be no problems renewing your TX drivers license anywhere in Texas.

Please call me at 888-757-2582 or email me at kellierossow at escapees dot com.

Hugs,

Kellie

I just got a new DL in TX using a PMB #, no questions ask. This was like two weeks ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Scottiemom:
It does concern me when I read that a PMB address will not suffice as a residence.

If you read the text of the Real ID Act, there is nowhere that says a PMB address will not suffice as a residence.

Under "Minimum DL/ID Issuance Standards (Section 202(c)(1)), it says, in part:

At a minimum, a state shall require the presentation and verification of the following information:
.
.
.
4. Documentation showing the person's name and address of principal residence

I suppose you can quibble about what the term "principal residence" means, but I see nowhere where it says anything about a house, an apartment, a condo, etc. In our case, our principal residence is on South Westport Avenue in Sioux Falls, SD...and we have lots items that prove that (all of our bills go to that address, we have our automobiles registered at that address, all of our insurance policies use that address, we file our U.S. tax returns using that address).

Linda, we had all that too but kept an address in a local park for the folks that just couldn't deal with the PMB issue. The only real pain in the lower neck folks were the local voter registration folks that insisted on an address we could park the rig at. We gave them Tower over on 12th street and they were happy.

Thanks for the replies...still confused.

Tell me about the Tower on 12th. street.

As far as I know the drivers license issue is still not resolved.

The latest in the saga from our friend is quoted below:

"Austin said I had to come down because I had a CDL. Which of course I DO NOT! I have a class A non commercial, which should be the same license that you have. However, when we arrived at DOT in Gainesville, TX, we were told the escapees address was not valid and we had to have a physical address. She did not care where or whos. So now we have 2 stories to deal with and this will be an ongoing saga for some time. A very nice person at SKP headquarters promised me they would see it through to the end. They did indicate that you called them today also. Did you get any answer to your questions? If you are within 60 days of expiration on your DL, try to renew on line and see what happens. I would be interested to know if it was just us or if something really is going on."

Dick