Ray, what does the ASI of MX mean? I know all about the 11 Bang.

No desire at all to go back!

Steve Ball
USN Ret.

Had enough fun there '67 and '68 to last the rest of my life. I'm staying home.

Folks, I certainly understand and respect what each of you are saying, and I'm sure that, if I were in your shoes, I'd feel the same. I personally have no desire to see any part of VN, so that's not the reason for my post here.

But, I've just finished a book that some of you may find interesting if you can find it. (I buy from discount places and this is one I bought in the States last summer)

Catfish and Mandala
A two-wheeled voyage through the landscape and memory of Vietnam
Author: Andrew X. Pham

Copywrited 1999 by Picador (under Farrar, Straus & Giroux)
ISBN 0-312-26717-7

The author is a Vietnamese man who was brought to the states as a child. It's about his 'journey' back through his birth country, and the way he was treated by the people as he traveled. It may be too intense for those who have worked so hard to put their Vietnam experiences behind them, so I'm a bit reluctant to recommend it, but for anyone who is contemplating a trip to Vietnam.... I say... read the book before going.

And, my friends, one more thing.....

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. GOD BLESS YOU WITH PEACE and with knowing that you did your job irregardless of your own personal beliefs, just as hundreds of thousands of our service people are doing today.

Lee

Lee,

Thank you for your kind words and the respect that they convey. You have a kind heart.

Hugs,

Steve Ball
USN Ret.

quote:

Originally posted by leftyf:
Ray, what does the ASI of MX mean? I know all about the 11 Bang.

M= First Sergeant; X=Drill Sergeant duty. In my case It is a permanent award of the Drill Sergeant patch, so the skill identifier is permanent also.

I blame McNamara and Johnson more than the current population of Vietnam. But still don't have any inclination to go there.

Having served in RVN 69-70-71, I guess I'm an exception. I plan to return and visit RVN, in spite of the fact that I too,have names on the wall.

During my tour, I spent much time with ARVN's and Montanyards, and had the opportunity to get to know them.
Regardless of the outcome, we played a defining role in what Viet Nam has become today. To me it would be interesting to see how our thirteeen plus years did influence their culture regardless of their current type of government. As often is said, our politicians do not define us as Americans, we as individuals do that.

One of my proudest moments has been having a Vietnamese "Boat Person" thanking me for my service to his country and inviting me to travel back with him to visit on his dime. It is amazing to me how time does change a persons perspective. Unfortunately at the time I had to decline his offer, but someday we will make the trip together. He and I have had many discussions about our life experiences, and I feel if he can learn to move on then there is no reason why I shouldn't.

I realize that everyone deals differently with the situations and experiences we encounter, I choose not to have my time in "Nam" define my life, but rather have those times and experience define who I have become. We cannot and will never forget our fallen brothers in arms; in my case some of those fallen brothers happen to be Vietnamese. Of which some I owe my life to.

I mean no offense to anyone, just explaining why I want to return to visit.

nmlegend60, no need to apolgize for how you feel about anything. Each of us have our own feelings, and we all fought for that right.

I certainly agree with Ray. You owe nobody here (or anywhere else) an apology or explanation for how you feel or what you do. Welcome home, brother

The Orderly Departure Program was established about 1980 in response to the South Vietnamese boat refugee exodus, and the massive human loss and vicitmization by pirates on the high seas.

The ODP provided a means for the South Vietnamese to apply for resettlement, get sponsorship and depart Vietnam by plane. I was one of the original Amerasian caseworkers in that program.

The ODP was not much immediate help to those former allies of ours that were sentenced to 5 or ten years "re-eduaction" camps, many of whoom died of starvation and disease. But they recieved a high priority when they could apply.

Prior to the ODP I had worked along Mekong Thai/ Laotian border and the Thai/Cambodian border assisting the Thais with Communist insurgency into Thailand and dealing with refugee issues from those border countries. Many of these refugees could pin-point for us where they had seen U.S. planes go down and contribute to MIA/POW intel.

The destabilization of the area has caused ongoing, enormous human suffering, particularly in Cambodia where the Khmer Rouge was able to gain control and commit the genocide of about 2 million people.

We are presently dealing with the consequences to the children there of the continuing general anarchy there following the reign of the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot.

You may soon read about the victimization of these children.

U.N. Tribunals are underway for the Khmer Rouge, but it is considered a sham since some of Pol Pot's officers are still part of the present Government.

This is not to fix blame whatsoever. This continued sufferintg was imponderagble back in the late 60's and early 70's.

But, 35 years after we fled VN, Laos and Phnom Phen, the nightmare also continues for many of the "non-combatant" people who populate these areas and who have inherited the effects of the "The War."

Most of the present generation of younger American and foreign folks have no idea what happened way back during, "The War" the politics, etc. etc.

And in the U.S. most folks who were involved in "The War," whether as combatants or protstors, don't know what has been happening in the aftermath of our involvement in Indochina.

Some got an idea from the movie, "The Killing Fields." But, even when the genocide was occuring, it was only back page news.

In Cambodia most are too busy dealing with their inheritance of "The War," Day-to-day, hand-to-mouth desperation. Many U.S. based Church groups are activley helping out.

Again, this is not a political statement. This is just what has been happening in some areas, "back there" that those Vets returning may encounter. In some areas they will encounter entire polulations needing help too.

quote:

Originally posted by nmlegend60:
Having served in RVN 69-70-71, I guess I'm an exception. I plan to return and visit RVN, in spite of the fact that I too,have names on the wall.

During my tour, I spent much time with ARVN's and Montanyards, and had the opportunity to get to know them.
Regardless of the outcome, we played a defining role in what Viet Nam has become today. To me it would be interesting to see how our thirteeen plus years did influence their culture regardless of their current type of government. As often is said, our politicians do not define us as Americans, we as individuals do that.

One of my proudest moments has been having a Vietnamese "Boat Person" thanking me for my service to his country and inviting me to travel back with him to visit on his dime. It is amazing to me how time does change a persons perspective. Unfortunately at the time I had to decline his offer, but someday we will make the trip together. He and I have had many discussions about our life experiences, and I feel if he can learn to move on then there is no reason why I shouldn't.

I realize that everyone deals differently with the situations and experiences we encounter, I choose not to have my time in "Nam" define my life, but rather have those times and experience define who I have become. We cannot and will never forget our fallen brothers in arms; in my case some of those fallen brothers happen to be Vietnamese. Of which some I owe my life to.

I mean no offense to anyone, just explaining why I want to return to visit.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HB Phil,

Phil,

This is one area where we are in complete agreement. Your last two posts are RIGHT ON! Good job.

Awhile back MSBNC Investigates did a show on the abuse of children by foreigners in Cambodia. It is still not widely known about but word is starting to get out.

Steve Ball
USN Ret.

P.S. I heard that MacNamara apologized to us all when he was promoting his book (I would never give him my dollars by buying it!). As far as I'm concerned apology NOT accepted!

.....MacMamara was born on Prentice Street here in Cincinnati, Ohio .....two houses down from where I was born.....never met the man-really didn't want to- I don't like positions like his very well....but he and others hired me to do a job and paid me for it.....am I apologetic about anything I or anyone else did?-NO- I just don't really care about those times/people now....nor the Viet's-Charlie Cambodians or any of the others..... I did what needed to be done....and rather enjoyed it for a few months-sneakin' around at nite-a long time ago-when I was a lot younger......geofkaye

Thanks.

We all have different experiences and indoctrination that has shaped our views for a lifetime.

As a result of my long term indoctrination, it's the Communist "system" and Communist authorities that I have an aversion to.

For example, I will never take a vacation in any Communist country and, even temporarily, subject myself to the Commie "system."

I never want to be placed in a position that I have to defer to a Communist authority, even a Commie traffic cop.

I do not mind being around regular Vietnamese people, specially those who have risked their lives to defy the Communist and leave Vietnam.

But I can easily see how many vets don't want to be around them whatsoever, South Vietnamese refugees or not.

Sometimes, no matter how we intellectualize some things as being "OK," when confronted with the real thing our blood starts rising or our guts start churning just the same.

Kind of like when I go on a roller coaster. I say to myself, "this is just a ride, nothing to be scared of," and then hear myself screaming in pure terror the whole way around.

Some things inside are just what they are, no matter what.

quote:

Originally posted by ADAGADAK Class of 06:
Phil,

This is one area where we are in complete agreement. Your last two posts are RIGHT ON! Good job.

Awhile back MSBNC Investigates did a show on the abuse of children by foreigners in Cambodia. It is still not widely known about but word is starting to get out.

Steve Ball
USN Ret.

P.S. I heard that MacNamara apologized to us all when he was promoting his book (I would never give him my dollars by buying it!). As far as I'm concerned apology NOT accepted!

I've know lots of genuine warriors who loved their warrior jobs too - giants of men - that have gone back to help out their former allies in the aftermath. Maybe organize a little cross border sneaky Pete stuff in the process.

Here are a couple examples: Tony Poe

Jack Shirley

Apologetic? No way.

quote:

Originally posted by KAYERIVERCITY:
.....MacMamara was born on Prentice Street here in Cincinnati, Ohio .....two houses down from where I was born.....never met the man-really didn't want to- I don't like positions like his very well....but he and others hired me to do a job and paid me for it.....am I apologetic about anything I or anyone else did?-NO- I just don't really care about those times/people now....nor the Viet's-Charlie Cambodians or any of the others..... I did what needed to be done....and rather enjoyed it for a few months-sneakin' around at nite-a long time ago-when I was a lot younger......geofkaye

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HB Phil,