Within minutes after receiving my new version of Street Atlas, the first two items I looked up were missing from the maps.

There is a bypass in Alamogordo that runs parallel to and about 0.5 miles west of White Sands Bvld.(old Hwy 54). It was not on SA 2006 and I asked a local when the bypass was built. He said about 2002. I was surprised that this major artery was missing from SA 2006. We are not talking about some minor side street back in a new neighborhood but a four-lane highway. I just received SA 2009 Plus and this bypass is not in that edition either. But it is in Google Maps. Now, there are some roads in SA 2009 that are labeled "Hwy 70 Byp". But these are the old roads, before the bypass was built, that that are not connected to show the new bypass. Compare SA 2009 (or 2006) to Google Maps to see what I mean.

I also tried to find a car dealership in Nampa, Idaho. The address was not shown on Street Atlas 2009. Normally, I would overlook the omission of a side street in a small town but, once again, it was shown on Google Maps. Plug this address into Google Maps to see what I mean - 5801 E Gate Blvd, Nampa, Idaho 83687.

I have been a DeLorme user for over 12 years and I have noticed that their maps often do not show roads that were built over two years prior to the release on a software version. This is not good for a company that advertises how accurate and comprehensive their maps are. Street Atlas charges $39.95 for their mapping software yet Google Maps, which is free, seems to be much more accurate.

I know I am comparing apples and oranges here since Google Maps does not have many of the features found in Street Atlas. But I wonder why DeLorme cannot tap into the same resources as Google Maps to keep its maps more accurate and up-to-date.

I made two separate but similar posts on the DeLorme Forum to describe these problems. One post was deleted and the other was locked. The folks at DeLorme don't accept criticism very well.

But they sure accept your money quickly. Which is the whole idea. Ship quickly ignore complaints and make it difficult to get refunds is a winning policy with today's consumers.

Yeah, you're right, Stan. I suspect that this is the last DeLorme product that I will buy. Their tech support acts like they are doing you a favor just by answering the phone. But I understand that Streets and Trips has its critics, too. And the rest of the mapping field is pretty expensive.

I did buy a Tom-Tom and I like its small size and the ability to put it in my pocket when I run into the store. It's adequate for navigating around a strange town but its trip planning is limited.

Glad that I saw this post, I was looking at Street Atlas for my Apple. I would like to run Street and Trip, but its not for apple. I don't want to run Windows just to do S/T. Route 66 doesn't appear to be any better. That is only draw back with the Apple.

2006 IH 4400
2000 Travel Supreme
Fulltimer 19yrs
SKP 15115

quote:

5801 E Gate Blvd, Nampa, Idaho

That address on my Co-Pilot Live 10 shows the car dealer could either be Petersons Stampede Dodge or Dan Wiebold Ford.

Edmark Superstore and Tom Scott Toyato are close by.

Forgot to add Co-Pilot Live 10 also shows the new bypass in Alamogordo.

Co-Pilot Live 11 is now the newest one.

quote:

Originally posted by Biker56:
Forgot to add Co-Pilot Live 10 also shows the new bypass in Alamogordo.

Co-Pilot Live 11 is now the newest one.

Compared to the $39.95 price of Street Atlas, the Co-Pilot price of $149.95 makes it one of those "expensive" ones. I have heard some good things about it but I am not yet ready to pay that much for the software.

You get what you pay for.

Having Streets & Trips 2008, Street Atlas 2008, a Garmin 550C and CoPilot Laptop Truck 11, I can easily say that CoPilot is at least two years more current that all the rest in the road database because ALK had more resources for updates through the trucking industry.

Couple that with the only supported height database to make sure we clear the overheads where we go, makes CoPilot worth the money

quote:

Couple that with the only supported height database to make sure we clear the overheads where we go, makes CoPilot worth the money

I agree that CoPilot is probably worth the $$ if you need the height info.

But, no matter what navigation software you use I still think you need to have a paper map at hand. Or at least that is my experience.

Mark, you probably use more navigation tools than anyone I know - do you still use a paper map??

quote:

Originally posted by Mark & Dale Bruss:
You get what you pay for.

Google Maps is free and it is much more up-to-date than Street Atlas maps. Why can't DeLorme tap into the same resources as Google Maps to keep its maps as up-to-date? After all, that's DeLorme's business.

Live Search Maps is also more up-to-date and has a "Bird's eye" view option. It's free also. DeLorme could do a lot better and still sell their product at the current prices.

Since I believe the subject was navigation software, i.e. GPS:

I guess Google Plus (which is not free) might be an option, all you need is a mobile Internet Interface but I an not sure I would want to be driving on maps being updated at Google Maps speed.

Microsoft Live Maps are static, ergo not a navigation option.

Cost is relative. A low bridge, the roof of the truck ($1000's), solar panels ($3000), heat pumps ($2800) versus $100 a year for CoPilot updates, priceless.

Coming to a bridge that only holds 20,000 lb and having to back up a mile or two, priceless.

Or have you found height clearances or bridge weight restrictions in Google Maps?

Just wondering.

As to being current, Hwy 43 extension to Eastern Ave in Eastern Baltimore
Garmin 2008 update = no
Streets & Trips 2008 = no
Street Atlas USA 2008 = no
Google Maps = no
MS Live Maps = no
CoPilot Laptop 11 = yes
Why would Delorme plagiarize that?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mark & Dale Bruss,

Our trucker's atlas has the height and weight limits on the national highway system which is what we used on strange roads along with more detailed paper maps.

Does the CoPilot have that data for roads not in the national system?

ALK CoPilot is a subset of the PC*Miler Fleet Management package, a comprehensive software package with routing tools, fleet maintenance, and the other numerous items fleets need to track. CoPilot uses the "loading dock" to "loading dock" routing part of the package. As such, they handle off the National Network routing to get to the "loading dock". CoPilot Laptop Truck is what commercial truckers use when they don't need all the extra fleet management software.

CoPilot Laptop RV is the same software with the height checking reduced from 13'6" to 12'6" or 13' optionally.

So to the question, does CoPilot have the height and weight data for off the National Network, the answer is yes.

For those who don't know, the National Network is those highways designated to meet minimum Federal standards to insure commercial truck passage. For example, a minimum of a 13'6" height clearance. All Interstate Highways, almost all US highways, and many state highways are part of the National Network. When you see signs in a city that trucks must use a certain route in the city, that route is part of the National Network.

The entry point for CoPilot Laptop RV is about $100 less than the initial purchase CoPilot Laptop Truck price. After that, the upgrades, roughly annually, are usually $100 for either product. We consider that part of our insurance plan.

The big difference for CoPilot compared to the other consumer packages is the funding for the road database. The PC*Miler is an expensive proposition for truck fleets but a necessary expense. CoPilot maximises feedback from the users by requesting the GPS logs of users trips to be sent in for analysis. That is one of the ways they figure out that ramps move during reconstructions for example.

There is a pretty common road database that municipalities and the states feed their road info into and that is the basis for the consumer GPS products. But if you understand how the data doesn't flow well, you will understand why that road database runs a couple of years behind.

ALK uses several other funded research resources to insure that they don't route a truck down a closed street. ALK can afford this because of the PC*Miler revenues.

Now can a city decide to close a street today and CoPilot not know about it, sure. Any software product that has a road database cut for distribution on a CD/DVD faces that delay. This is the same delay that printed materials have.

Likewise a city may decide to put 6" of blacktop on a street under a 13'6" bridge and cause clearance problem. But that is why your eyes are always looking up as you approach them. But this is a side street issue. A municipality can't afford to do that on a National Network road because the fines for failing to meet minimum Federal standards is high.

But to recap, when the road database CD/DVD is cut for distribution, the one ALK is using is more current than any consumer road database.

Can you use a truck's guide to plan your trips, sure. Will that information be readily available when you miss a turn and choose your own reroute?

Before I started using Co-Pilot back in 98 or 99.
I travel by myself 99.5% of the time and found paper maps real hard to hold and read while driving. A lot more distracting then a glance to a 15" laptop.

If I make a wrong turn in a big or small city CP talks and gets me right back on the correct route. It would take me a long time to find a place to pull over and park to find the correct city map, if I had one.

When in curvy & mountain country, CP shows you every curve ahead, if it goes left, right, a switch back, ect. I haven't seen a paper map yet that you can zoom in to show all the curves from point A to B.

In fact a lot of paper maps will show a road from point A to B look like a rather straight road until you start driving it and find out otherwise. With CP you can check out the roads in planning before driving them and have no surprises.

When I have found mistakes in CP data. I email them my gps log and what the change is. I have seen the change I gave them in the next years software.

I also have the Garmin 2008 Map Source that I use on my Motorcycle & car sometimes. But it is way short of CP on POI locations. So when I am setting it up for a trip with some stops. I use CP to find the stops and then after knowing the location I can put them in Garmin as a way point.

As for CP being high price, it might save you the cost of it in gas price alone. By taking you on those new bypass roads with fewer stops for lights then the old stop & go every block roads.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark & Dale Bruss:
Since I believe the subject was navigation software, i.e. GPS:

Mark,

The subject was errors in Street Atlas maps - mainly because they were not up-to-date. I was not discussing the navigation features of the program.

I know you are a big fan of Co-Pilot but I don't need the features that you listed. For those that do, like yourself, that is the way to go. I would like maps that are up-to-date, i.e., a map that shows a major bypass that has been there for 6 years. I believe DeLorme should be better in that respect without their customers having to pay double or triple what they currently are paying for a program like Co-Pilot.

If Co-Pilot, Google Maps, and Live Search Maps can be reasonably up-to-date, why can't DeLorme. After all, they are in the map business. In addition to navigation programs, DeLorme sells paper maps too.

Delorme is really big in maps. They are the predominate vendor of maps and charts in the US.

I guess their main focus is on terrain aspects.

It would be interesting to see the mechanisms Delorme and Google use for road database updates. I understand that relying on municipalities and states for updates is not a timely process. If Google is more current, then they must be using some extra resources ala ALK.

I read a document once on the several mechanism ALK uses. It was quite interesting.

In the Delorme forum, they were asked once about height data and Delorme stated that there wasn't enough value in the marketplace for the investment it would take. I wonder what the economic value of current road data is?

I remember back in Street Atlas 4.x that the street we lived on was spelled "Missile Tow" when in fact is was "Mistletoe". While the mistake is probable depending on the person doing the data entry, my research found that it is common for mapping companies to induce small errors like that so that they can tract plagiarism.

A misspelled street name I can see. An omitted road, no.

maintaining the POI databases has to be a real challenge. We visit Pensacola often and since the hurricane, none of the packages nor Garmin have caught up with businesses that moved in the rebuild process.